Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

Vesp · « **Reply #160 on:** September 11, 2009, 05:19:06 AM »

No method like that, other then
You can often crystallize out one enent... by using a known enemtiomer...
I believe some people use OTC tartaric acid to get the D-meth from the racemic... Pretty sure the OTC tartaric acid is the D...

you should have read in the link I posted to you:

Quote

Enantiomers have, when present in a symmetric environment, identical chemical and physical properties except for their ability to rotate plane-polarized light (+/-) by equal amounts but in opposite directions. A mixture of equal parts of an optically active isomer and its enantiomer is termed racemic and has a net rotation of plane-polarized light of zero.

I highly doubt you'd have the L, or the recemic, but possibly the recemic if it is synthetic.. You can determine if it is racemic vs just an enentiomer via a polarmeter I'd think...

Agent Madhatter · « **Reply #161 on:** September 11, 2009, 05:38:50 AM »

Well. I did read all the links you posted, but stuff like that I don't really know what it means so it doesn't click.

Though I see what your saying, D would make you see certain colors in a certain pattern. Like from left to right blue, Green, Yellow, Black

And L would be from left to right Black, Yellow, Green, Blue?

Also, this still doesn't help me with the matter of figuring out which one is which. Besides the racemic.

2bfrank · « **Reply #162 on:** September 11, 2009, 06:20:41 AM »

I think you take a sample and put it in an instrument, and youll see a shift either of two ways. I dare say their are different instruments, but I think they all create poloarised light, light waves that are all going in one direction, and when this light is shone through a sample, it will rotate it left or right- and amounts of left or right. I dont think it is about seeing colors, albeit a band being used that is polarised. I rechon from where most of us stand, To know what we have got, is determined by the reaction weve used. ie racemic product, due to the nature of the reaction. If you know the reaction, understand it a bit, youll know what the product will contain. From their you could use ways of changing things abit. my2cents.

2bfrank · « **Reply #163 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:35:03 AM »

Sorry to double up here, but anyone heard of graphite bisulfate, got a new ester book and it reports 90% yields on ester formation via carboxylic acid and alcohol with a 1:1 ratio of this graphite bisulfate... It can be made by merely using graphite electrodes, and placing them in 98%H2SO4.. Done this last night and the cathode remained untouched, and I went through 4 welding rods, and it turned black, I ended up adding this to large container of water, in the hope that all the other crap would be turned into carbon, and anyways a graphite precipitate has resulted.. Sort of interesting. Ill report if it works of course..

Ill find the reference and have a look and see what this refers to..also it states the use of Montmorrilinite that also catalyses ester formation, ie.1-phenylethanol(5mmol) and GAA (50mmol)heated in reflux in presense of montmorilinite (100mg)( I am assuming bentonite -via brewery outlets perhaps may suffice. with good yields,, I dont know how good, but seems very fucking simple.. Something I can play with for sure.. I made the graphite last night. so I may try that today..

Sedit · « **Reply #164 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:41:01 AM »

graphite bisulfate?

What the hell would that structure look like?

Naf1 · « **Reply #165 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:15:51 AM »

"also it states the use of Montmorrilinite that also catalyses ester formation, ie.1-phenylethanol(5mmol) and GAA (50mmol)heated in reflux in presense of montmorilinite (100mg)( I am assuming bentonite -via brewery outlets perhaps may suffice. with good yields,, I dont know how good, but seems very fucking simple.. Something I can play with for sure.. I made the graphite last night. so I may try that today.."

I have been lurking in the shadows waiting for someone to mention that word! But I was hoping they would spell it correctly $:-\$ \ You can use this for MANY useful things, apart from what you stated above. Here is some good reading for your fine self about "MONTMORILLONITE"

Method for producing catalysts by acid activation
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6995108/description.html

2bfrank · « **Reply #166 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:26:28 AM »

"You can use this for MANY useful things, apart from what you stated above."

I quoted that reaction from a book I downloaded of late called.Esterification by Junzo Otera 2003 , which states what I stated. I dont know as I haven't tested such a claim..The spelling yeah, I got lazy.

The graphite info I quoted also from that book, and I just found a freebie pdf article enclosed.. Ill have a better look though, at that patent...

Naf1 · « **Reply #167 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:36:13 AM »

I should have said "You can also use it for alot of other useful things too"
Sorry I did not mean to say that can not be done! I meant there are many other uses, many of them would be very handy to members here. BTW; but did you read the link?

edit;Dude you have got me paranoid, above I meant the patent when I said have you read the link? (just 2b clear).

2bfrank · « **Reply #168 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:40:58 AM »

Yeah I did, and yes its pleasing..So What do you know of bentonite, its just another name for a type of. MONTMORILLONITE, Saying this as I googled it, and got that as an answer.But its a question nonetheless. .Also that graphite info rung some bells..
and yeah I misunderstood, sorry. But that out the way, this Clay seems pretty fucking useful.

Naf1 · « **Reply #169 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:52:13 AM »

I know as that patent states that bentonite is purchased as you stated above, then activated as per your requirements. I also know your requirements would be for montmorillonite K10, which is acid activated bentonite.

The word useful does not do it justice! Using your household microwave what you can do with it would make your head spin! Here is literally the tip of the iceberg! You can do so much more than in the link below!!!

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mw.clays.txt

The references are right at the bottom. But if the phenyethylamine to phenylacetaldehyde is high yielding (which most microwave synths are!) then it may be very worthwhile looking into decarboxylation of phenylalanine to phenylethylamine which is high yield and easy to do, and I think some jerk on the forum has posted recently about it! If phenylacetaldehyde could be aquired in high yield and cheaply it would be definitely worth looking into. Not to mention the easy styrene to nitrostyrene (without nitroethane) and many many new avenues that would open up!

2bfrank · « **Reply #170 on:** September 12, 2009, 01:55:31 AM »

You fucking beauty, cheap as chips 200meters away. Fuck and that patent,,pleased an understatement.

2bfrank · « **Reply #171 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:09:02 AM »

Quote from: Naf1 on September 12, 2009, 01:52:13 AM

I know as that patent states that bentonite is purchased as you stated above, then activated as per your requirements. I also know your requirements would be for montmorillonite K10, which is acid activated bentonite.

The word useful does not do it justice! Using your household microwave what you can do with it would make your head spin! Here is literally the tip of the iceberg! You can do so much more than in the link below!!!

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mw.clays.txt

ha, I just posted the understatement word before you edited this.. Currently making Clayfen, claycop, and doing some trials today.. Yeah, Im spinning..

So Naf1, Ive had this out elsewhere about the possibility to use yeast to go from beta-nitrostyrene to a phenylnitroethane situation.. Any views?.. It can be done with borohydride, but dont want to waste,

Sedit · « **Reply #172 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:25:20 AM »

Slow down folks because sedits are slow creatures that need a little help.

Naf can you please do these slow demonic creatures a bit of a favor and present us a threed on the uses on these clays some time in the very near future. I hear some Sedit demons are very good with ceramics and even makes a living off of them at times so if there are things that can be done with clays hes all ears.

2bfrank · « **Reply #173 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:30:23 AM »

Yeah I second that, and could also supply some lit papers.

Naf1 · « **Reply #174 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:34:32 AM »

Yes I like this alot! I will get on that!

Especially when I see this in red many times when posting.

"Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post."

So with all the goodies like this in it?

As for saturating that alkene with bakers yeast, I will have to look into to it.

And again
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

German · « **Reply #175 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:52:41 AM »

Naf1 you are such a freakin work horse man.

Naf1 = forum's bitch

Happyman · « **Reply #176 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:53:23 AM »

Got another one about propionyl chloride, (un)fortunately lacking fireworks. Would phosphorus pentachloride do the trick? They mention a good synthesis for phosphorus pentachloride here http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7701&page=2 but never get back to it.

"Red P in Chloroform + Chlorine I have done on a medium scale (10g red P in 100ml Chloroform, the Chloroform was previously dried over P2O5 and distilled).
This exclusively produces phosphorus pentachloride. No PCl3 is present in the mix, even when red P is present in excess.
The PCl5 just refuses to react with more red P when in Chloroform (in the dry state it works, however). "

Naf1 · « **Reply #177 on:** September 12, 2009, 02:56:56 AM »

"Naf1 = forum's bitch "

Thats why you love me

Sedit · « **Reply #178 on:** September 12, 2009, 03:09:19 AM »

Damn skippy

Naf1 · « **Reply #179 on:** September 12, 2009, 03:19:26 AM »

Skippy? You mean like;

LOL!

@Happyman, sorry I missed that I followed the link and there was a link to a kick ass German forum! Apparently a mod there named Stefan came up with that procedure (impressive!) it is documented here;

http://www.versuchschemie.de/ptopic,124916,2d7537946855c29dc509a6a48d77a6a0.html#124916

If you run that through babylon it will give a pretty decent translation to work with. That quote you posted was from that post, and I quickly ran it through babylon and he documents the technique fully!

Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

Vesp

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Agent Madhatter

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2bfrank

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2bfrank

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Sedit

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Naf1

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2bfrank

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Naf1

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2bfrank

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Naf1

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2bfrank

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2bfrank

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Sedit

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2bfrank

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Naf1

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German

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Happyman

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Naf1

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Sedit

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Naf1

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