Author Topic: Short Questions Thread  (Read 10820 times)

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #320 on: December 02, 2009, 08:54:14 PM »
Since the non methylated variant is active in some way by being an anticovulsent I would expect this to show some form CNS activity as well which I would assume at first glance to show some form of sedation since many anticovulsents act as glutamate inhibitors IIRC. I have to reset alot of stuff on Pubchem account and what not before I will be able to bring up any Bioassays of the compound.

Since imine formation with the carbonyl should proceed with no problem I would bet my life on this being aminated right along side of any other ketones present. The synthesis I viewed of it used Leuckart reaction on dibenzylphenone to produce the given amine.

It is used for a few different things as a reagent as it appears so you may be able to pull up an MSDS somewhere on the compound.
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heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #321 on: December 03, 2009, 04:22:17 AM »
The MSDS says that the non methylated variant is corrosive, has an MP of 11-13, and has an LD50 in rats of 400mg/kg.
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no1uno

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #322 on: December 03, 2009, 09:51:47 AM »
Now they could just test for residue though, and you probably wouldn't want your house covered in a residue of a substance lol


The residue tests used most widely simply test for the existence of (a) an amine and/or (b) the presumptive nature thereof (the one most widely dealt out to investigator's is the Marquis Reagent (see Dr. Shulgin's words on it)...

The difficulty they will face if they try to get someone to Court with this is that where the person admits or even states that they are an amateur chemist and have done work on several amines (nicotine/caffeine/.etc.... & the extraction thereof) is that the "presumptive" tests are somewhat presumptuous, that is why TLC, HPLC, FT-IR spectrometry, etc. exist (cos if we could identify everything with a little training and a flask of formaldehyde & some H2SO4 they'd be unnescessary wouldn't they?)... Odds on, if they are taking someone to court purely on residue and existence of glassware, they will not have got enough "residue" to run HPLC/FT-IR on (or to have bothered with doing so).

Then again, if you are done with half a pound of whatever illicit substance bubbling away under reflux, this "probably" won't be of much assistance, though if residue is ALL they have, this may help.

As to residue, anywhere you deal with the base (either of the pseudo/ephedrine or the MA or whatever), you'll find that it adheres to wall's, ceilings, etc. like shit to a blanket... For those using HI with P or the acids, Phosphine forms products with copper/bronze/etc. that also count in court.
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Vesp

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #323 on: December 04, 2009, 12:51:11 AM »
Quote
Phosphine forms products with copper/bronze/etc. that also count in court.

Such as simple inorganic salts? Surely if you said you also practiced chemistry and what not... this would cause some problems with the evidence as well... right?
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Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #324 on: December 04, 2009, 01:12:24 AM »
Another question about oxidizing ammonia. Why wouldn't ammonium just oxidize into ammonium nitrate with hydrogen peroixde? Why does it oxidize into ammonium nitrite?

Another question that everyone seemed to look over before can GABA be cyclized with cyanates?
GABA+Sodium Cyanate+ Hydrochloric acid---> GBL+Urea+Sodium chloride
C4H9NO2+NaOCN+HCl--->C4H6O2+CH4N2O+NaCl
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 01:28:11 AM by Happyman »

no1uno

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #325 on: December 04, 2009, 03:47:26 AM »
Quote
Phosphine forms products with copper/bronze/etc. that also count in court.

Such as simple inorganic salts? Surely if you said you also practiced chemistry and what not... this would cause some problems with the evidence as well... right?

It is a LOT harder to explain why you were playing with phosphine in your loungeroom for example... Most people don't (well, not for very long anyway), the bits they check are the electrical contacts, etc.
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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #326 on: December 06, 2009, 01:11:03 AM »
Benzophenone a ketone that can come over when distilling P2P  can cause havoc downstream, hence if it gets aminated and hydrochloride salt what is it called and what are the physical properties....i can find the latter  i just need help finding out that the methylamine of the ketone is called  once an HCl salt....thanks....java

N-methyl-1,1-diphenylmethanamine would be the secondary amine product from benzophenone and methylamine, or so says chemdraw. Other things chemdraw says are that the BP for the 2 ketones and 2 freebases are quite a ways apart. There is certainly a mystery, non crystally product still causing havoc. At least the gel is gone, so it seems to be crystalizing out first in alcohol reXtals. Time will tell.

Strike my comments about that prep not working, was dealing with impure freebase. But from other newer refs it seems that the 2 base :1 tartaric preps are not forming neutral salts but only forming acid salts of half of the amine, leaving the other as base in the alcohol.

Researchers were putting their money on it being 1-phenylpropan-2-ol from the reduction of p2p, but it also should have a bp quite a ways away as well. Is chemdraw "guessing"?

Thanks to you, man!

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #327 on: December 07, 2009, 07:07:55 PM »
Is latex compatible with methyl bromide?
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Vesp

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #328 on: December 08, 2009, 02:39:44 AM »
Probably not, however I think the composition of latex varies a lot since some can be synthetic or natural. But thinking about how MeBr acts... It seems like it would be pretty damaging - of course, to how important that is depends on how long it is going to be stored in it, and in what conditions, concentrations, etc...
right?
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heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #329 on: December 08, 2009, 03:21:34 AM »
I'm most concerned with it seeping through.

How about polyethylene? It seems like it would be much better than latex (might fail?), but I haven't seen any reports.

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Edit:

MeBr eats polyethylene.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:25:27 AM by heisenberg »
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Naf1

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #330 on: December 08, 2009, 03:59:44 AM »
Someone named Mr.White, posted this at another forum. Mr Walter White I presume, like heisenberg lol!

And trust me this is one of the less scarier things about methyl halides!

"Methylation of proteins and lipids has been observed in the tissues of several species,
including humans, after exposure via inhalation. Methylated DNA bases have also been
detected following exposure of rodents in vivo or rodent cells in vitro to methyl bromide."

It will methylate your DNA on exposure, not to mention cut your life expectancy in half!


shroomedalice

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #331 on: December 08, 2009, 07:40:55 AM »
Wear protective gloves. Methyl Bromide can penetrate ordinary rubber gloves. Vitron, nitrile or butyl rubber is recommended

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&ved=0CBoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spcs.co.za%2FDoc%2FMSDS017MethylBromide.doc&rct=j&q=nitrile+gloves+methyl+bromide&ei=dgIeS82_JpHc7APIubDcCw&usg=AFQjCNF0Zzyw3AWgoY6D7a8FcTWcpBu8mg

still not perfect but the best you will get I think.

I would probably use two pairs of nitrile gloves then when the top layer is getting a bit soft
replace them.

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #332 on: December 08, 2009, 02:38:18 PM »
@Naf1

That's not not actually me, but it certainly is amusing.

Also, this is all theory.

MeBr is about as toxic/carcinogenic as MeI, although it is more dangerous because it is a gas at STP.

It should be quite possible to handle it without ever coming in contact with it. Tight seals, proper tubing, and proper ventilation should ensure that one never comes in contact with it. It is also important that the system can be purged and neutralized at the end of the reaction without having to disconnect any glass joints.
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Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #333 on: December 08, 2009, 11:21:26 PM »
Methods for using MeCl is to dissolve it into a MeOH solution where it is stablized for long periods of time.
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Naf1

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #334 on: December 08, 2009, 11:33:36 PM »
"That's not not actually me, but it certainly is amusing."

I guess it is amusing if you are not the person being methylated.

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #335 on: December 09, 2009, 12:54:32 AM »
"That's not not actually me, but it certainly is amusing."

I guess it is amusing if you are not the person being methylated.

LOL.

I meant that I'm not "Mr.White".
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Naf1

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #336 on: December 09, 2009, 01:09:00 AM »
"I meant that I'm not "Mr.White"."

OK, I did not really think you were. Just thought I would bring up the coincidence, Mr.White may have been a res dogs reference for all I know, anyway. You get a chance to peruse the reference request thread lately? You seem to have the good access to sciencedirect too, you would not mind having a browse for me, I have been looking for said paper for a long time?

shroomedalice

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #337 on: December 11, 2009, 08:43:51 AM »
does anyone know what ratio the isomers are created in when a psuedonitrosite is hydrolisised.
also if there is a way to control which isomers are created much like in the henry reaction via useing
different amines.

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #338 on: December 13, 2009, 07:48:37 AM »
Benzophenone a ketone that can come over when distilling P2P  can cause havoc downstream, hence if it gets aminated...

From the writings of people who know way more than me,
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/p2p.phenylacetic.html
Methyl benzoate and Benzyl acetate look to be the hard/impossible to distill out side products from the phenylacetic acid+lead acetate p2p cook. Being side products, would more vac and lower pot temp tend to decrease their production?

Is there an easy ether breaking/removing tech that I am unaware of?

What is a recommended glass packed column size for the ketones and freebases in the chemistry you can eat family? Is 30cm overkill or right on?

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #339 on: December 13, 2009, 04:29:48 PM »
Does the isomerization of allylbenzenes work alright with NaOH instead of KOH? I've heard it doesn't work as well, if at all. This doesn't really make sense to me though, could someone explain?
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