Author Topic: Short Questions Thread  (Read 10820 times)

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #340 on: December 13, 2009, 06:04:16 PM »
Ether attacks by HI and HBr with "vigorous" conditions are not easy and everything will reduce before the ether, so I guess that with careful distillation methyl benzoate can be distilled off before p2p, then after amination the freebase product of benzyl acetate and methylamine, 1-(benzyloxy)-N-methylethanamine, can be left in the pot after distilling off the MA freebase.

Anyone got a clue how to limit their production in the first place?

It appears none of the c(r)ooks give a shit.

shroomedalice

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #341 on: December 14, 2009, 02:37:41 AM »
na there will be no isomerisation unless you have a drying agent like CaO and even then the yeilds are not the best.

I think making an alkoxide is the go to be honest.

just put your caustic in ethanol and xylene and boil out the xylene ethanol water mix untill all of the caustic has turned into alkoxide.

then add alkene and reflux for a few hours.

I have yet to try this method though I tried quite a few on the hive.
the reason I belive it will work is KOH and alcohol works.

you will also do away with the need for stirring this way.

2bfrank

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #342 on: December 16, 2009, 04:58:42 AM »
I need a high boiling point oil, that wont smoke, or smoke very little at around 220c. In the past Ive used mixtures of what Ive had a t hand, be it paraffin wax and a vaccuum oil for a comprssor, but these usually smoke to much. Ive been advised silicon oil, but I cant find it. Probably this is a retarded question, but does anyone know of a suitable OTc oil in the land down under(AUS)

Im rushed, and needing to dry MeOH, whats the best for this. Next time Ill utfse, but this time would appreciate the answer quick. I was thinking MgSO4, but I added to a small amount, and ti went cloudy and didn't setle. with only small amount of salt on bottom, Help appreciated.

It looks like CaSO4 is a good contender, re tfse. but still want to know the high bp oil. Was thinking brake fluid, as that would get pretty hot. anyways, im rushed and help would be app'ted.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 05:13:46 AM by 2bfrank »

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #343 on: December 16, 2009, 05:38:51 AM »
If its cloudy that means there is much H2O. You should add more drying agent until it clumps and leaves your solution clear. I use MgSO4 for IpOH and Im pretty sure that it works for MeOH as well. Just keep on adding until the solution is no longer cloudy. It may take a while for it to absorb all the H2O in the mixture.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
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2bfrank

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #344 on: December 16, 2009, 05:46:32 AM »
Good, I have just never seen it so cloudy, and wastn' sure WTF was up. so thanks, The cloudiness didn't settle, but Ill add more, but im also calcifying some CaSO4, just incase.

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #345 on: December 16, 2009, 06:13:37 AM »
It sounds to me like there is ALOT of H2O in the mix causing the cloudiness. You may just want to let that one dry over night.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

2bfrank

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #346 on: December 16, 2009, 11:26:37 PM »
Yeah I ended up finding some glaubers salt, that did the job, but  I will, do that overnight, so I have it dry, for next time. btw Sedit, what do you recommend for a high bp oil that wont smoke like fuck w temp around 200C.

I used to get this hydrolic oil, called DD3- some other number, and it was elcheapo, but the bussiness has moved, and I cant find it. Any brake fluid should be fine, perhaps go for something heavy duty, ie for trucks, Just thought to ask, just in case you knew of something good and CHEAP..
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:37:14 PM by 2bfrank »

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #347 on: December 17, 2009, 12:15:36 AM »
Have any analogs of LSD with a 5 member D ring been tried?
I spent all my money on booze and hookers, the rest I wasted - Charles Bukowski

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #348 on: December 19, 2009, 08:28:22 PM »
What happens if you put a magnet on an induction stove? Does it just get hot, or does it move/vibrate at all?

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #349 on: December 21, 2009, 01:00:44 PM »
Wow, never really knew how much I didn't know. you guys are like speaking german half the time to me. Still love it though!!

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #350 on: December 24, 2009, 07:54:47 PM »
A new one:

We all know that when Chloroform  gets in contact with sodium hydroxyde in water (with PTC or not), the dichlorocarbene radical is formed:

CHCL3 + NaOH ----> :CCl2 + NaCl

For example, in a Reimer-Thieman rxn when you add slowly chloroform to a hot aqueous NaOH soln of phenol, dichlorocarbene is formed and reacts with the phenol to make salycialdehyde.

What We didn't know is that dichlorocarbene adds to alcohols forming the corresponding alkyl chloride. For example if we added chloroform to sodium hydroxyde in ethanol we would obtain ethyl chloride, I THINK but I dont know for sure it goes like this:

2 EtOH + :CCl2 ---> 2 EtCl + HCOOH

You can check this journal that assures that you can chlorinate alcohol with dichlorocarbene:

ht*p://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00736a063 (No need to pay, it's just one page and you have it there for free, there is a missing t on the http so put it yourself)

My question is: If one added Chloroform a little by little to a stirred soln of sodium lactate and sodium hydroxide in water, is it feasible that she would obtain 2-chloropropionic acid aka alpha-chloropropionic acid???

With the nasty esthers of this nasty chemical, one can have yields arround the 80-95% of P2Ps from their corresponding benzaldehydes! Check the Hive arcHive.

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #351 on: December 25, 2009, 08:19:02 AM »
If you tried a Friedel Crafts propionylation with toluene and propionyl chloride would the propionyl chloride be more likely to form a bond with the methyl group or would it attach to the ring?

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #352 on: December 25, 2009, 08:41:25 AM »
?

Check the mechanism of the Friedel Crafts rxn....

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #353 on: December 25, 2009, 09:27:20 AM »
Good point. Let me rephrase that. Do you think a Friedel Crafts reaction is likely using toluene as my aromatic ring?

I answered my own question on accident. Toluene works fine. I claim this based off of...

« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 10:22:27 AM by Happyman »

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #354 on: December 26, 2009, 12:05:05 AM »
Alright. So what would be wrong if I did a Friedel Crafts with benzene and isopropyl alcohol to give me cumene and then methylaminated that to phenpromethamine?
C9H12+CH5N--->C10H15N+H2

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #355 on: December 26, 2009, 09:33:19 PM »
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 09:35:53 PM by Enkidu »

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #356 on: December 26, 2009, 11:28:36 PM »
Check the refs. Organic_reactions_v3.pdf It was attached to my last post. Benzene and Isopropyl alcohol in 80% sulfuric acid at 65 degrees Celsius for 3-4 hours yields cumene at a yield of 65%.  Why that is in a book of Friedel Crafts Method I don't know. Thought it had to be halogenated. Anyways, page 27-28. This is what its telling me.

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #357 on: December 27, 2009, 02:36:26 AM »
Check the refs. Organic_reactions_v3.pdf It was attached to my last post. Benzene and Isopropyl alcohol in 80% sulfuric acid at 65 degrees Celsius for 3-4 hours yields cumene at a yield of 65%.  Why that is in a book of Friedel Crafts Method I don't know. Thought it had to be halogenated. Anyways, page 27-28. This is what its telling me.

Because it's a Friedel Craft reaction. Isopropyl alcohol is dehydrated to an alkene by 80% sulfuric acid at 65 degrees C.

Alkylations are not limited to alkyl halides: Friedel–Crafts reactions are possible with any carbocationic intermediate such as those derived from alkenes and a protic acid, Lewis acid, enones, and epoxides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedel%E2%80%93Crafts_reaction

Using Alkenes. http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/friedel-crafts-alkylation.shtm
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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #358 on: January 04, 2010, 07:42:00 AM »
If something needs to reflux for a relatively long time, like 20 hours, can this be done cumulatively (ie. 10 hours one day and 10 the next) so it doesn't have to be left running overnight?

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #359 on: January 04, 2010, 11:41:24 AM »
depends on the reaction timecube :)
for instance if your converting pan to paa yes.
but some reaction will get side reaction over time weather due to the main reagent oxidizing or the other reagents
deteriorating. there are a heap of other reasons it might not work as well.

truly depends on the reaction.

some reactions even turn to plastic if left that long.