Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

Vesp · « **Reply #620 on:** September 16, 2010, 12:24:24 PM »

Perhaps oxidation of toluene to benzoic acid with than decarboxylation to yeild benzene...
OR
transalkylation, I think they called it reverse friedal crafts, perhaps... using a strong lewis acid and careful distillation to yield benzene and dimethylbenzene, or other multi-methyl benzene derivatives.

Neither work all that well, and it is probably best to just buy sodium benzoate and heat with NaOH for producing benzene. However, despite the claims that the transalkylation sucks, which I am sure it does - I still like that idea.

poisoninthestain · « **Reply #621 on:** September 17, 2010, 08:42:18 AM »

dry distillation of calcium hydroxide with a benzoate gives fairly decent yields if not good for benzene....should be redistilled though as your final distillate will be brown. using any stronger base is a bit caustic on your glass but i've never tried that method.

devongrrl · « **Reply #622 on:** September 17, 2010, 08:49:11 AM »

I think this will help you

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyw_hrXrZ8

atara · « **Reply #623 on:** September 17, 2010, 09:45:44 PM »

Quote from: Vesp on August 28, 2010, 10:54:17 PM

Rosmarinic acid

MDMA! How have we not noticed this molecule before?

Vesp · « **Reply #624 on:** September 18, 2010, 03:40:00 AM »

Quote from: atara on September 17, 2010, 09:45:44 PM

Quote from: Vesp on August 28, 2010, 10:54:17 PM
Rosmarinic acid
MDMA! How have we not noticed this molecule before?

Good question.... What concentrations does it come in with plants? does it have any use otherwise?

salat · « **Reply #625 on:** September 18, 2010, 02:56:48 PM »

ROSMARIC-ACID Plant 3,000 - 3,500 ppm ABS Dukes Phytochemical database.
OOPS wrong acid...

ROSMARINIC-ACID Leaf 3,500 ppm; JAD Plant 25,000 ppm; JBH FT62:166 Shoot 13,500 ppm; JAD Tissue Culture 38,957 ppm; JAD

Other uses Seasoning stew! Also herbal medicine - here are other plants that have it in higher concentrations:

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/duke/chemical.pl?ROSMARINICACID
salat

Vesp · « **Reply #626 on:** September 18, 2010, 04:05:01 PM »

Prunella vulgaris can have up to 1.7%
That is pretty good, now is that while fresh or dried?

salat · « **Reply #627 on:** September 18, 2010, 05:04:41 PM »

According to my herbal books most plants retain their essential oils when dried. Some even long after they've laid in wet ground. There's exceptions to every rule, but in general most herbals are dried before processing for medicinal extraction as a matter of course.

http://www.msuturfweeds.net/details/_/heal_all_22/

It's a weed - amazing how many weeds and also members of the mint family have good stuff in them. I'll have to see if the local herbal shop has any for sale. I was playing with perilla this week - it is in the list as well. The leaves were'nt that great for extracting from but I have a bag of perilla seed I got at the oriental market. Just don't know how you go about separating an acid from the other stuff.

salat

Vesp · « **Reply #628 on:** September 18, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »

It would be pretty tricky, I'd say chromatography, but that is difficult if you need a decent amount.

Perhaps it will form an insoluble salt with calcium hydroxide? If so, probably other things will as well..

Don't forget about the safrole content in various juniper plants - shouldn't be to hard to remove and it is in decent quantities.

akcom · « **Reply #629 on:** September 18, 2010, 10:29:27 PM »

My inorganic chemistry is shaky at best. I'd like to hear what you guys think of the following. I'm trying to form nickel acetate from nickel (II) oxide and dilute acetic acid (distilled vinegar). This is what I'm thinking:

Add 10 grams (.13 mol) Ni(II)O to 400 mL 4% v/v acetic acid (.28 mol) and heat until all Ni(II)O has dissolved. Continue to heat with stirring for 1 hr. Boil off excess vinegar to precipitate Nickel Acetate.

My thinking is that as I boil off the excess water I should be pushing the reaction equilibrium
NiO + 2AcOH <=> Ni(AcO)2 + H2O
to the right (to completion?).

My inorganic chemistry is a bit rusty so I'd love to get some comments/critiques. Especially on shifting the equilibrium.

Vesp · « **Reply #630 on:** September 19, 2010, 03:01:28 PM »

Without much heating I believe that NiO will react with the acetic acid to form the nickel acetate.

One thing I would be concerned about, though it might not be a big deal is that while boiling solutions of salt there is often carry over - small particles of the solution will get kicked up into the air and so it is likely that you will have some Ni get air born while boiling away the solution. This might not be very concerning, but nickel is a carcinogen I believe, and possibly has other negative effects. so keep that in mind, and maybe do a bit more research on its dangers - as I don't know if it is even very much of a problem...

It should work though. Likely slow evaporation would work as well, but there is a chance that it could, much like iron salts do, oxidize back to NiO or other.

atara · « **Reply #631 on:** September 27, 2010, 07:39:55 PM »

I've heard of ethylenediamine as a Birch solvent. Would 1,3-diaminopropane work as well? It's much easier to prepare.

NeilPatrickHarris · « **Reply #632 on:** October 19, 2010, 12:36:43 AM »

what is the pKa of MDA?

solidstone · « **Reply #633 on:** October 19, 2010, 12:40:38 AM »

9.67 for MDA. Download a Merck Index, saves a lot of time.

Sedit · « **Reply #634 on:** October 19, 2010, 01:18:19 AM »

Quote from: atara on September 27, 2010, 07:39:55 PM

I've heard of ethylenediamine as a Birch solvent. Would 1,3-diaminopropane work as well? It's much easier to prepare.

Atara the longer the carbon chain the less able the diamine is in solvating Alkali metals properly. Methylamine is known to work as is Ethylenediamine but I would think that while possibly effective the propane may be stretching it. Also keep in mind that side chained amines such as Dimethylamine and such destroys solvation activity.

Can you link to the process for preperation of 1,3-diaminopropane? I find it hard to believe it be harder or more accessable then Ethylene Glycol halogenation followed with amination using (aq)NH₃

NeilPatrickHarris · « **Reply #635 on:** October 19, 2010, 01:34:27 AM »

Quote from: solidstone on October 19, 2010, 12:40:38 AM

9.67 for MDA. Download a Merck Index, saves a lot of time.

awesome thanks! i actually have the Merck 13th edition by Cambridge Soft, the guys who make ChemOffice but it doesn't list pka's. which merck do you use?

akcom · « **Reply #636 on:** October 19, 2010, 05:26:05 PM »

Sitting class today something struck me. Why haven't meth cooks just taken to oxidizing ephedrine with chromic acid or bleach, then performing a clemens reduction? Extremely OTC, and stupid simple in my humble opinion. Would the ketone intermediate be hard to isolate or something?

edit: ha, never heard of methcathinone before. well that's news to me. so again, why aren't people reducing methcathinone to meth hcl?

Vesp · « **Reply #637 on:** October 19, 2010, 05:49:20 PM »

Quote

edit: ha, never heard of methcathinone before. well that's news to me. so again, why aren't people reducing methcathinone to meth hcl?

I have thought of this as well - so it is likely I said it somewhere on this forum at some point - think there is discussion on it around here somewhere, but I could be mistaken. It does seem like a decent possibility - though, the yields are probably going to be lower and if you can get ephedrine, perhaps you can get other stuff as well... Or ephedrine is in such limited quantities that it is not worth using on a lower yielding method. Perhaps?

Goldmember · « **Reply #638 on:** October 21, 2010, 12:39:36 PM »

Re: the Wohl-Ziegler reaction,
i.e in this case radical allylic bromination of propene using N-Bromosuccinimide.

_Does anyone see any reason why Bromo-dimethylhydantoin coulnt be substituted for the bromosuccinimide?

Oerlikon · « **Reply #639 on:** October 21, 2010, 02:20:09 PM »

If you take out methylenedioxy out of 3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl-2-propanone
ans supstitute it with 3,4-diphenol si that substance watched and is it usefull!?

Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

Vesp

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poisoninthestain

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devongrrl

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atara

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Vesp

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salat

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Vesp

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salat

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akcom

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Vesp

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NeilPatrickHarris

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solidstone

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Sedit

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akcom

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Vesp

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Goldmember

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Oerlikon

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