Author Topic: Short Questions Thread  (Read 10822 times)

Happyman

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #300 on: November 27, 2009, 08:39:18 AM »
Couldn't decide between silly questions about GHB or Nitrites thread. Move accordingly. Can ammonium nitrite used for a Sandmeyer?

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #301 on: November 27, 2009, 09:37:00 AM »
Quote
Can ammonium nitrite used for a Sandmeyer?

If you can get it to react with an acid before it decomposes into water and nitrogen --- I don't see why not.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #302 on: November 27, 2009, 03:29:51 PM »
Its to unstable so I wouldn't even think about it at all. You would be much better to mix an equal molar (aq)Solution of Sodium (bi)carbonate and ammonia nitrate leaning ever so slightly towards the nitrate. Boiling this solution(!Caution!) decomposes the ammonia carbonate and leaves you with Sodium Nitrate. Then you can further reduce your nitrate to a nitrite.

Sounds exausting and no doubt it is. Trust me.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #303 on: November 27, 2009, 10:36:56 PM »
Or just add your ammonium nitrite, assuming you have some - to ammonium hydroxide/carbonate and then you'll get sodium nitrite obviously...
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

shroomedalice

  • Guest
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #304 on: November 28, 2009, 10:17:36 PM »
is it possible to do a birch reduction in hydrazine or will it blow up.

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #305 on: November 29, 2009, 10:56:37 PM »
Has any one looked into the possibilities of making 4-ethylamphetamine and 4-isobutyl-amphetamine from ibuprofen?
I suppose these drugs are possibly useless, but they may have some expiremental use that would prevent breaking the laws of some countries, etc...


The idea I have is after decarboxylation of ibuprofen, you could react it with KMnO4 to get a mixture of 4-isobutylphenyl acetic acid, and 3-(4-ethylphenyl)-2-methylpropanoic acid.

The 4-isobutylphenyl acetic acid could be turned into its P2P derivative and everyone knows what to do...
3-(4-ethylphenyl)-2-methylpropanoic acid, could be turned into the amide, and then Hoffman rearranged into the amine producing 4-ethylamphetamine, I think.

Clearly during the KMnO4 oxidation, you'd end up with a dicarboxylic acid, which might be able to be separated based on its increased solubility, or perhaps precipitated by a calcium salt?

eh.. just a little thought I'd toss out there...
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #306 on: November 30, 2009, 01:19:48 AM »
Does anyone have information on the 4-isobutylamphetamine, by the way?

Also.. does anyone know how to add a 2,5-Dihydro/quinone/methoxy/whatever to an amphetamine like those above? or any of their intermediates? Seems like that could have some potential as well...
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

2bfrank

  • Guest
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #307 on: November 30, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »
I remember sometime back at this market, these crew were selling some chunky/powder stuff that removed odors, it was mainly set up to remove cigerette smoke odors from rooms, I didn't know anything about chem back then, and it popped in my head, WTF it would of been. I know alot of things absorb lots of things, but anyone know anything specific for the removal of  cigarette smoke in particular?

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #308 on: November 30, 2009, 10:15:04 PM »
I think it is likely that it could have just been a compound to numb your olfactory neurons. These exist in things similar to frebreeze and candles for oder in the house.

I also think this has potential for messing with a dogs olfactory neurons and might cause them some serious problems.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Bluebottle

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #309 on: November 30, 2009, 10:50:35 PM »
The alkali metal would probably dissolve in the hydrazine, but so long as the vessel was kept sealed or air otherwise excluded, the only other thing to get in the way would be the strong reactivity/instability of the hydrazine itself - so you'd have to be sure that the hydrazine would not react with your reactant or its product before the metal gets to it.

Is there any simple way to stick an alkyl group on a secondary amide? I have a suspicion that N-butyl and N-propyl melatonin might be worth investigation. The patent that I came across suggests use of the alcohol, a mineral acid catalyst (H2SO4 I think) and an autoclave, but I don't see many of these molecule making it's way through that.
"And now we divide both sides by zero..."

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #310 on: November 30, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »
When playing around with tartaric acid and resolving racemic mixes of products, does one want to be making the neutral salt, 2 mols base to 1 mol tartaric, or the acid salt, 1:1?

edit-> http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv5p0932 is making the acid salt while most of Rhodium's examples are using the neutral salt
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.html and the British Patent 508,757 quoted on that page seems to say it doesn't matter, that with the acid salt the good one will be soluble in methanol while the other will precipitate while another passage on that page says that the acid salt will make the good one precipitate.

I would assume that the neutral and acid salts would have different solubilities, but then I'm partially retarded and fully uneducated.

My merck doesn't have a tartaric salt of my base, neutral or acid, only HCl.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 03:34:20 AM by disposable stirbar »

2bfrank

  • Guest
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #311 on: December 01, 2009, 02:40:57 AM »
I think it is likely that it could have just been a compound to numb your olfactory neurons. These exist in things similar to frebreeze and candles for oder in the house.

I also think this has potential for messing with a dogs olfactory neurons and might cause them some serious problems.

Thanmks, I will look into this, at the time, it ppaeared to be a powdered salt, but what youve stated is ineresting.

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #312 on: December 01, 2009, 10:54:07 PM »
Also might be something like silica gel - this has surface area AFAIK and might act similarly to activated carbon?
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

2bfrank

  • Guest
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #313 on: December 02, 2009, 02:22:12 AM »
Yeah, but it worked real good, Im going back 20 years, so details arent good. As far as scents go. An old comrade from some time ago, used to laugh about the times he got visited and in would come the dogs(SNIFF) and theyd go bezerk, but not just his stash spot, if he did indeed have one, but every where. Its an old trick, and that is to get whatever in the oil phase, and squirt(a drop) every meter of the dwellings, the local area, and the whole fucking neibourhood, as hed say. Sort of funny, but he never ever got his stash picked up by the doggies. But that wasn't the point of my post, Their is a smoker in the house, and its driving me nuts, Ill try the gel and see if that helps
Im also not sure if his method works, but believe him when he said the dogs would go absolutely nuts every fucking where, but mind you he was renting, so perhaps such odors were from the last tenants. Im not sure, just thought it somewhat ammusing, with the possibility of being abit of a ploy.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 02:25:18 AM by 2bfrank »

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #314 on: December 02, 2009, 02:29:11 AM »
Now they could just test for residue though, and you probably wouldn't want your house covered in a residue of a substance lol
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

2bfrank

  • Guest
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #315 on: December 02, 2009, 04:58:22 AM »
Yeah maybe, but doing the deed from home could be problematic anyway. but he reckoned hed convert whatever into an oil, mix with app' solvent, hence diluted, and placed a drop every meter or so, all over the place, including his garden, his backgarden, his neighbours garden, back garden, and knowing him, he probably did his neighbours house as well. I dare say it was paranoia induced, but he did have the dogs go through a number of times, and they could never settle on one location. I am not so sure if it has merit, or is a fuckup paranoid - got to do something type of action. Im just mentioning it due to the conversation starting of in regards to aromas, and I thought it interesting, amusing, and it may have some merit, probably if one is renting, and hasn't been their for too long. afterall, if you are doing the deed in some place, the product or the intermediates can be picked up I believe. So Ill think about this some more.

ps, baring in mind the question was initially to do with dirty rotten ciggerete smoke, that I am currently forced to share a dwelling with someone who lives for the stuff.

That information which you mentioned regarding chem that block ones ability to smell, could have some interesting applications, I knew of one dude doing some work with
somewhat impregnating plastics somehow so that each item could be idenified seperately. If a plastic could absorb something that stinks, and could be detected, and subsequently treated with something that blocks such detection, their'e be huge security applications, anyway thanks for your comments vesp.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 05:08:25 AM by 2bfrank »

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #316 on: December 02, 2009, 05:15:16 PM »
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv5p0932

Do not follow this prep making the acid tartaric salts of N-methyl-1-phenylpropan-2-amine. The acid salt precipitates everything, not effecting a separation of stereo isomers. Should hold true for md and others if anyone cares.

Reports of neutral salts and selective extraction to come.

java

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #317 on: December 02, 2009, 06:54:00 PM »
Benzophenone a ketone that can come over when distilling P2P  can cause havoc downstream, hence if it gets aminated and hydrochloride salt what is it called and what are the physical properties....i can find the latter  i just need help finding out that the methylamine of the ketone is called  once an HCl salt....thanks....java
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 08:44:35 PM by java »
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!.Emiliano ZapataIt is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!.......

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #318 on: December 02, 2009, 07:17:56 PM »
If I understand correctly N-methyl-1,1-diphenylmethanamine hydrochloride would be the product of a reductive amination of Benzophenone. After the addition of HCl it would just be he Hydrogen chloride salt of this.

Thru PubChem I also found this substance called
N-Methylbenzohydrylamine hydrochloride
N-Methyl-alpha-phenylbenzylamine hydrochloride
Benzylamine, N-methyl-alpha-phenyl-, hydrochloride

Predicted Properties
LogP: ACD/LogP: 3.42

ACD/LogD (pH 5.5): 0.55  ACD/LogD (pH 7.4): 2.05  
ACD/BCF (pH 5.5): 1  ACD/BCF (pH 7.4): 10  
ACD/KOC (pH 5.5): 2.33  ACD/KOC (pH 7.4): 73.76  
#H bond acceptors: 1  #H bond donors: 1  
#Freely Rotating Bonds: 3  Polar Surface Area: 3.24 ?2  
Polarizability: 10-24cm3    
Flash Point: 130.8 °C  Enthalpy of Vaporization: 52.72 kJ/mol  
Boiling Point: 288 °C at 760 mmHg  Vapour Pressure: 0.00241 mmHg at 25°C  

Sorry I was unable to find any toxicology or Bioactivity reports even though some are suppose to exist I am now locked out after my computer crashed.

Check HERE to see if you can search deeper


It appears it is an anticovulsent According to this paper which I don't have access to
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 07:25:28 PM by Sedit »
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

java

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #319 on: December 02, 2009, 08:41:41 PM »
i guess the question that begs to be asked is....will benzophenone go through reductive amination with amalgamated aluminum and methylamine ...then chlorinated to be the salt of that compound ....if it does , is it toxic or CNS active?   There is much to be known of this compound as it often gets distilled along with the methyl ketone and I'm concerned if it goes through the process of amination and producing the salt of `hcl   like the methyl ketone......however it has a distinguish mp much higher than the sought after methylated amine..........java
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!.Emiliano ZapataIt is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!.......