Author Topic: Short Questions Thread  (Read 10830 times)

b6baddawg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1040 on: October 03, 2011, 06:06:14 AM »
iron oxide in nitromethane.

the last of the pure nitro i could get been stood 2 year, its rusted inside the container. the nitroM took on some colour id like to remove before whipping up some hydroxylamine, its ok to distill it off as is?

also, 25% nitrom rc fuel, 18% castor oil the rest methanol, the best way is distill of pure methanol, then the azeotrope (distill that again) then nitrom and stop as oil begin to smoke~ same time as condensate ceases?

just wanted clarification thanks
fuckin hazmat laws

Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1041 on: October 03, 2011, 07:14:38 AM »
Have u got an azeotropic distillation header? Pure nitro is easy to find too......
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b6baddawg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1042 on: October 03, 2011, 07:56:35 AM »
well i seen one way of purchasing pure nitro but the cost is astranomical, comes in a small few ml bottle to mix with something else.. add the cost to the amount of running around for enough for needs it would be beyond reasonable.

whats an azeotropic distillation header?  search turned up nothing. looks like time to hit books again lol
vigreaux column for separating fractions yes.

thanks terror n lugh, both problems solved... cant see the woods for the trees sometimes
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 05:14:54 AM by b6baddawg »

Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1043 on: October 03, 2011, 08:41:35 AM »
Dean stark  :)
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lugh

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1044 on: October 03, 2011, 10:17:40 AM »
Quote
also, 25% nitrom rc fuel, 18% castor oil the rest methanol, the best way is distill of pure methanol, then the azeotrope (distill that again) then nitrom and stop as oil begin to smoke~ same time as condensate ceases?

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1695.msg17854.html#msg17854

Quote
iron oxide in nitromethane.

Filtration might bee helpful  8) 8)
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

Tsathoggua

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1045 on: October 03, 2011, 11:27:14 PM »
Bloody hard to find nitro RC fuel that will ship outside of wherever its produced. Toady cheats and buys his nitroparaffins,  but he has never been able to find any nitromethane RC fuel seller that will actuallly part with their product. Doesn't have any issues but damn, would be a bitch if he did have to go through RC fuel sellers.
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Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1046 on: October 08, 2011, 08:09:49 AM »
Does anyone have any refs for mdp2p decomposition?  I've heard it decomposes at rt but would like to see some refs behind this...
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lugh

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1047 on: October 08, 2011, 10:39:52 PM »
Quote
Does anyone have any refs for mdp2p decomposition?  I've heard it decomposes at rt but would like to see some refs behind this...

It's been discussed already:

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,378.msg4248.html#msg4248

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1178.msg13654.html#msg13654

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,378.msg4248.html#msg4248

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,2078.msg21853.html#msg21853

the search engine is your friend  8)
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

lugh

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1048 on: October 08, 2011, 10:58:16 PM »
Quote
Does anyone have any refs for mdp2p decomposition?  I've heard it decomposes at rt but would like to see some refs behind this...

Chapter 10 of House's Modern Synthetic Reactions

https://www.wetdreams.ws/forum/ftp/lughwd/house10.zip

and

https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=22797.msg159238#msg159238

 8)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 12:02:59 AM by lugh »
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1049 on: October 10, 2011, 08:57:50 AM »
Thank lugh, haven't read it all yet, gotta do djvu...


On another note, post al/hg solvent extraction... my solvent+fb mix seems rather yellow, guessing impurities? I washed 2x water 2x bicarb which has helped but still has a yellow tone.. nothing like Ala Gonzo anyway...

So the question is,should I continue washing till the solvent is 'clean / white' or jut try and gas, hoping it won't oil out or maybe titrate to reach the salt? I understand titration has better results with dirty fb, correct?
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Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1050 on: October 10, 2011, 09:31:53 AM »
Let me know the day you ever achieve clear free base in solvent ok...
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sassa

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1051 on: October 10, 2011, 06:13:18 PM »
To me,getting a orangy  toluene extraction from the al/hg it´s equal to things gone 100% right.Obviusly with same amount of freebase to extract,with less volume toluene more orange it will come.If you look at Gonzos´s pictures,the toluene it´s water clear,because it use 700 ml to extract like 20 gr freebase.I use 600 ml to extract near 45 grams freebase,so the toluene it´s way more orange here. If you distill that toluene,you will find  a more dirty freebase that you expected,almost dark brown and nothing pretty to deal with.The al/hg it´s a dirty method,and of course,the freebaseobtained  it´s dirty too.
  I´ve mastered  the toluene cleaning after the al/ hg doing that:
  1.  After extracting the toluene  from the sluge,first make ONE WASH WITH LITTLE AMOUNT 10% NAOH solution.You can save  a little from the solution you used to basify the sluge on the begining too,Naoh concentration no matters here.It makes the next washes much very easy and clean ,because take off some sluge that it´s still on the toluene.Better too if you have time,will freeze for 30 minutes the toluene to decant some sluge that you can see at room temp.
  2. Now you have very clean orangy toluene.wash 3 times with same amount little cold DISTILLED water and finally with brine.The orange stick to the toluene.you will see the toluene only more cloudy because water contained now on it.When you make the last wash,with the brine,let sit more tha usual,no matter layers are well defined,the salt it´s drying the toluene.And now the toluene it will be very clear/transparent orange coloured.The exact order it´s that,if you make again a plain water wash,you will be on the beginig again,with WET toluene.And skip the bicarbonate wash!
  3. Dry over MgSo4 .Like now i take things more peacefull 8),if i don´t have time,a put toluene and the magnesium on the freeze all night long=the toluene it´s sure dry and no aluminium particules on it.it´s amazing how much sluge it´s on the toluene at room temp that you can see.
4.I never gas now(fucking tricky) ...i extract like much others  with 500 ml 5% Hcl solution for 50 gram salt expected on 2 extractions of 250 ml.Here,it´s the only time  i shake like mad like 10 minutes for each extraction on the funnel.To me,here don´t work well the stirring method....seems takes more time and yields are low,and on all cases,never got an emulsion here no matter how hard you shake.
5.you get VELVET-RED BLOOD  WATER LAYER (more intense on first extraction).
6:and finally:SAVE THE EXTRACTED TOLUENE ,wash again with water 3 TIMES  and REUSE FOR THE NEXT EXTRACTION:i´ve used same toluene 5 consecutive times with same great results...if you use on the al/hg again there is no problem with that,you saved a lot money on toluene,and any remaing freebase not extracted will be eXtracted on the next Al/HG.
7.Finally i make a DCM WASH of the acid water solution:it´s take off most of the red colour(what it´s this???? and after evaporation with a fan near the pirex pan,the crystalls are almost transparent without colour,If i don´t make this DCM wash,the resulting crystals are very coloured and not pretty at all.makes a great diference.
8.Quick wash with cold acetone and finish,or recrystallization with acetone flashing if i think the crystals are not pretty enough.
  That works for me like a charm!!
   

Enkidu

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1052 on: October 11, 2011, 06:01:40 PM »
Salts aren't soluble in DCM.

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1053 on: October 12, 2011, 04:12:41 AM »
Salts aren't soluble in DCM.


Nonsense, DCM is one of the few organic solvents along with DMSO and a few others that does dissolve salts.
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Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1054 on: October 13, 2011, 03:29:36 AM »
Thanks for that sassa, big help! Im a little confused with one of the statements though...

""""7.Finally i make a DCM WASH of the acid water solution:it´s take off most of the red colour(what it´s this? and after evaporation with a fan near the pirex pan,the crystalls are almost transparent without colour,If i don´t make this DCM wash,the resulting crystals are very coloured and not pretty at all.makes a great diference.""""

Does this mean you have tried to evaporate without doing the DCM wash, ie: straight from the HCL?

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Enkidu

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1055 on: October 13, 2011, 03:44:48 AM »
re: the solubility of salts in DCM

Interesting, does anyone have solubility data for various ionic compounds in DCM? I would have thought that the solubility would be negligible.

Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1056 on: October 14, 2011, 03:43:53 AM »
Ive looked long and hard for info of people following the sassa method above, can't find anything.. does anyone else have any experience with it?
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RoidRage

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1057 on: October 14, 2011, 05:28:45 AM »
What method ? He's simply extracting the MDMA freebase from the non-polar solvent with acidified water. While not being an actual titration, it's what people call the ''titrating'' as opposed to gassing. A correctly-done titration requires drop-wise addition of acid to neutralise the base while constantly reading pH to know when all the freebase has been neutralised (converted to the salt). I haven't calculated it, but target pH is probably about 3-4, and not 7, since a weak base is being neutralised by a strong acid. Once you overshoot with HCl , pH immediatly drops to 1.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:30:17 AM by RoidRage »

Terror

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1058 on: October 14, 2011, 05:59:05 AM »
I was more referring to taking the salt into the dcm layer, but cheers! I went ahead and the first hcl wash went very white, there's also some sorta cobwebs floating about.. I guess this is a good sign....
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RoidRage

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #1059 on: October 14, 2011, 06:31:15 AM »
I've never read about washing the acidified water layer with DCM either before and I personally wouldn't do it since MDMA HCl is soluble in DCM (Don't know HOW soluble though). Anhydrous Acetone washes + Recrystallisation takes care of the dirty color anyway  ;).

If one wants to wash his aqueous phase with a non-polar solvent, he should uses toluene/xylene instead. Don't know if it gets rids of the reddish color sassa is talking about though.. Maybe he could chimes in ;D

« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 06:33:40 AM by RoidRage »